هل علم إبراهيم وموسى ودانيال بزمن بعثة النبي?( الجاهل هيثم طلعت )

[النجار]

طلب منى احد القراء لمواضيع منتدانا الاعزاء. رايى فى الفيديو السابق للمدعو (هيثم طلعت) .

فى الحقيقة انا لم اكن اعرف هيثم هذا حتى بضع شهور مضت . عندما وضع احد فيديوهاته احد المسلمون فى المنتدى.
و دخلت الفيديو و تقززت من لحيته المليئة بالقمل و كلامه الذى يسخر فيه من اللادينيون.
مع انى احاول بقدر الامكان التركيز على عمل معين اليومين دول. لكن تقديرا للقارىء العزيز ساكتب تلك المشاركة.

بدا هيثم بيه نهيقه التبشيرى (الذى يصدقه بعض الحمير المشاهدين له ) بالاستشهاد خبط لصق من سفر رؤيا ابراهيم. كما لو انه كان حقا كلاما من لسان المدعو ابراهيم هذا . و لم يقرا حضرته كلام علماء مقارنة الاديان عن ذلك السفر !

هذا السفر(و أيضا ما يسمى بسفر موسي الخ) هو أحد الأسفار المنحولة التى تنتمى لفئة معينة من الادبيات اليهودية تسمى "الأدب الرؤيوي" والتى كانت موضة أدبية مزدهرة فى الثقافة اليهودية فى فترة ما بعد السبي البابلي وكانت شائعًة بين المسيحيين الأوائل.
الذى إستحث كتبة تلك الاسفار(جميعهم مجهولى الهوية)، هو
١- محاولتهم الدفاع عن النبؤات التى لم تتحقق فى اسفار التوراة.
٢- اعتقادهم البدائى ان الزمن من بداية الخلق والى نهايته هو 6000 عام، بعدها 1000 للراحة. وحاولوا وصف احداث العالم فى كل تلك المراحل.
٣- لكن الهدف الحقيقى من هذا الأدب بشكل عام هو التوفيق بين عدل و رحمة الله وحالة المعاناة لشعبه الصالح على الأرض. و أعطت رسالة امل لقراؤها اليهود بقرب التخلص من معاناتهم و عقاب الاشرار والانتقام من اعداء اسرائيل و ظهور اليوتوبيا الميسيانية .

و نجد كتبة تلك الادبيات يقلدون بعضهم البعض ينسبون السفر لاحد كبار شخصيات التناخ، من خلال استخدام الرؤى والأحلام ، و غالبًا ما يتم توفير مترجم سماوي للمتلقي حتى يتمكن من فهم الرؤى التى رأها .
وكانت تلك نظرتهم للزمن:
نشأت كتابات نهاية العالم في وقت كانت فيه إسرائيل خاضعة لمدة أجيال طويلة لسيطرة واحدة أو أخرى من القوى الاستعمارية العالمية العظمى.و من أجل مواءمة معاناة إسرائيل مع فكرة الإيمان ببر الله ، كان على كتبة تلك الرؤى أن يفسرون تلك الأحداث على أنها من قدر الله ، كصعود كل إمبراطورية ومدتها وسقوطها ، و حتى ، ما سيحدث أخيرًا فى نهاية العالم عندما تنتقل سيادة العالم إلى أيدي إسرائيل ،و الدينونة النهائية لاعداء اسرائيل. و مع انه تنتمي هذه الأحداث بشكل رئيسي إلى الماضي (ما قبل كتابة تلك الاسفار) ، لكن الكاتب زعم أنها ستحدث فى المستقبل (نبؤات بأثر رجعى) ، مرتبة ضمن فئات زمنية ( مصطنعة ) يزعم الكاتب أن الرب حددها و قدرها منذ البداية وأعلنها لعبيده الأنبياء.

متى كتب ما يسمى بسفر ابراهيم ؟

Date of Composition.
Concerning the date of the composition of the Apocalypse proper, it clearly can not have been written before the destruction of the First Temple, as it contains Abraham's lamentations over that catastrophe.

while the book was possibly known to the author of the Clementine Recognitions i. 32–33, a text that narrates legends known in the 2nd century AD. For this reason, and in comparison with other apocalyptic texts, the text in its current form is usually considered to be written before the second half of the 2nd century AD. Within the usually accepted range of 70–150 AD, the date of 79–81 AD has been speculated.

يعنى الكاتب يمكنه بسهولة الكتابة عن خراب الهيكل و اختراع نبؤة باثر رجعى على لسان الديوث "ابراهيم خليل الرحمن" .

الاهم من ذلك لنتجاهل ان ذلك السفر ولا غيره من الكتب المنحولة يصلح لان يقال لمسيحى او يهودى عنه ان محمد ( يجدونه مكتوبا عندهم فى التوراة والانجيل ) لانه لا هو توراة ولا هو انجيل عندهم. و سنتجاهل الخرافات التى يحتويها ذلك السفر (التى تخالف قران المسلم)
و دعنا نركز على الفقرة التى تعرض لها فى الفيديو:

اول درس يجب ان يتعلمه هو . فهم ما يقوله النص الاتى الذى هو بداية سياق المسالة:

And I said: “O Lord, mighty and eternal! Who are the people in this picture on this side and on that?” And He said to me: “These which are on the left side are the multitude of the peoples which have formerly been in existence and which are after thee destined,1 some for judgement and restoration, and others for vengeance and destruction at the end of the world.2 But these which are on the right side of the picture—they are the people set apart for me of the peoples with Azazel.3 These are they whom I have ordained to be born of thee and to be called My People.

ما هو بالاحمر يقصد به اليهود .و ماسبقه هم الامميون


ياتى بعدها كلام عن تلك الطفيليات القذرة (الكهنة) و هيكلهم وذبائحهم

But I said to Him: “What is this idol, or what is the altar, or 9who are they that are sacrificed,9 or who is the sacrificer? Or what is the Temple which I see that is beautiful in art, and its beauty (being like) the glory that lieth beneath Thy10 throne?” And He said: “Hear, Abraham. This which thou seest, the Temple and altar and beauty, is my idea of the priesthood of my glorious Name, in which dwelleth every single prayer of man, and the rise of kings and prophets, and whatever sacrifice I ordain to be offered to me among my people who are to come out of thy generation.11 But the statue which thou sawest is mine anger12 wherewith the people13 anger me who are to proceed for me from thee. But the manwhom thou sawest slaughtering—that is he who inciteth murderous sacrifices,1 of (sic) which are a witness2 to me of the final judgement, even at the beginning of creation.”

ما هو بالاحمر مرة اخرى عن اليهود .
وينتقد الرب هنا ممارسة الاضاحى البشرية بين نسل ابراهيم شعبه المختار.

يقول بعدها السفر

And I looked and saw: lo! the picture swayed and [from it]9 emerged, on its left side,10 a heathen people, and they pillaged those who were on the right side, men and women and children: [some they slaughtered,]9 others they retained with themselves.11 Lo! I saw them run towards them through four
(entrances (Possibly means“descent”
,12 and they burnt the Temple with
fire, and the holy things that were therein they plundered.1 And I said: “O Eternal One! Lo! the people (that spring) from me, whom Thou hast accepted, the hordes of the heathen do plunder, and some they kill, while others they hold fast as aliens,2 and the Temple they have burnt with fire, and the beautiful things therein they do rob [and destroy]. 3 O Eternal, Mighty One! If this be so, wherefore hast Thou now4 lacerated5
my heart, and why should this be so?”
And He said to me: “Hear, Abraham. What6 7 thou hast seen7 shall happen on account of thy seed who anger me by reason of the statue which thou sawest, and on account of the human slaughter in the picture, through zeal in the Temple;8 and as thou sawest 9 so shall it be.”9 And I said: “O Eternal, Mighty One! May the works of evil (wrought) in ungodliness now pass by, but10 (show me)11 rather those who fulfilled the commandments, even the works of his (?)12 righteousness. For thou canst do this.” And He said to me: “The time of the righteous meeteth [them]1 3 first through14 the holiness (flowing) from kings1 5 and righteous-dealing rulers whom I at first created in order from such to rule among them.15 But from these issue men who care for their interests,16 as I have made known to thee and thou hast seen.”

"المداخل"أو "الاصول القومية" الأربعة التي غزى منها الوثنيون الشعب المختار تتوافق مع فترة أربعمائة عام من العبودية لإسرائيل التي تنبأ بها الله لإبراهيم في سفر التكوين. ،انها إشارة إلى أسر إسرائيل وخضوعها من قبل القوى العالمية القمعية الأربع في كتاب دانيال، ( بابل ، وميديا ، واليونان ، وروما.) وهو كلام الترجوم ايضا فى Targum Gen. xv.
: And behold, Abram saw four
kingdoms which should arise to bring his sons into subjection.

ومن الواضح أن الكاتب يدور في ذهنه عنف الرومان في عهد تيطس ، والتي انتهت بدمير الهيكل بالنار عام 70 م.

يستمر السفر ويقول:

And I answered and said: “O Mighty, [Eternal One],17 hallowed by Thy power! Be favourable to my petition, [for for this hast Thou brought me up here—and shew me]. 18 As Thou hast brought me up to Thy height, so make [this]17 known to me, Thy beloved one, as much as I ask—whether what I saw shall happen to them for long?
And He showed me a multitude of His people, and said to me: “On their account through four issues,1 as thou sawest, I shall be provoked by them, and in these2 my retribution for their deeds shall be (accomplished). But in the fourth outgoing3 of a hundred years4 and one hour of the age—the same is a hundred years5—it shall be in misfortune among the heathen
And I said: “O Eternal [Mighty One]!7 And how long a time is an hour of the Age?”8 And He said: “Twelve years 9 have I ordained of this ungodly Age10 to rule among the heathen and in thy seed; and until the end of the times it shall be as thou sawest. 11And do thou reckon and understand and look into the picture.”

بعدما راى ابراهيم تلك الكارثة للهيكل ولشعب الله المختار. تسائل الى متى يارب ستستمر معاناة شعبك اليهودى المختار من ظلم الامميون؟


يشرح تلك الفقرة العالم
G. H. BOX, M.A.

استاذ الادب اليهودى الربانى

In chap. xxx. the coming of the ten plagues on the heathen world is placed “at the passing over of the twelfth hour”; then follows (ch ap . xxxi.) the Messianic salvation. Apparently the present age is reckoned as enduring for twelve hours (each hour = 100 years), i. e. on e day (cf. John xi. 9). The apocalyptic writer may possibly reckon this day as beginning with the founding of the Holy City by David (cf. 4 Ezra x. 46) and culminating in the destruction of the last Temple by Titus, which calamity was to be followed by the period of woes described in chap. xxx., these bringing the present age (or æon) to a close. Now according to Josephus (War, vi. 10) the period from David’s reign in Jerusalem to the destruction of the Temple by Titus amounted to 1179 years. If we suppose the seer to be writing at the close of the first or in the early years of the second century A.D. the period would include about 1200 years. Like all the apocalyptists he obviously supposes himself to be standing on the brink of the new age. Perhaps in the text above “and one hour of the Age” is intended to synchronise with the “fourth out-going of a hundred years.” [In Pirke de R. Eliezer xxviii. a dictum ascribed to R. Elazar ben Azariah runs: (from G en . xv.) thou mayest learn that the rule of these four kingdoms will only last one day, according to the Day of the Lord (= l000 years).]

يستمر النص:

And I looked and saw a man going out from the left, the heathen side. From the side of the heathen went out men and women and children, a great crowd, and they
5. worshipped him. And while I was still looking, those on the right side came out, 6. and some insulted this man, and some struck him and others worshiped him. And I saw that as they worshiped him Azazel ran and worshiped and, kissing his face, 7. he turned and stood behind him. And I said, "Eternal, Mighty One! Who is this 8. man insulted and beaten by the heathen, with Azazel worshiped?" And he answered and said, "Hear, Abraham, the man whom you say insulted and beaten and again worshiped is the liberation from the heathen for the people who will 9. be (born) from you. In the last days, in this twelfth period of the age of my fulfillment, I will set up this man from your tribe, the one 10. whom you have seen from my people. All will imitate him,,,(you) consider 11. him as one called by me...(they) are changed in their counsels. And those you saw coming out from the left side of the picture and worshipping him, this 12. (means that) many of the heathen will trust in him. And those of your seed you saw on the right side, some insulting him, some beating him, and others worshiping 13. him, many of them shall be offended because of him. It is he who will test those of your seed who have worshiped him in the fulfillment of the twelfth hour, in the 14. curtailing of the age of impiety. Before the age of justice starts to grow, my judgment will come upon the heathen who have acted wickedly through the people 15. of your seed who have been set apart for me. In those days I will bring upon all earthly creation ten plagues through evil and disease and the groaning of the 16. bitterness of their souls. Such will I bring upon the generations of those who are on it, out of anger and corruption of their creations with which they provoke me. 17. And then from your seed will be left the righteous men in their number, protected by me, who strive in the glory of my name toward the place prepared beforehand 18. for them which you saw deserted in the picture. And they will live, being affirmed 19. by the sacrifices and the gifts of justice and truth in the age of justice. And they will rejoice forever in me, and they will destroy those who have destroyed them, they will rebuke those who have rebuked them through their mockery, and they 20. will spit in their faces. Those rebuked by me when they are to see me rejoicing 21. with my people for those who rejoice and receive and truly return to me." See, Abraham, what you have seen, hear what you have heard, know what you have known,. Go to your inheritance! And behold I an with you forever. Chapter 30 1. And while he was still speaking, I found myself on the earth, and I said, "Eternal, Mighty One, I am no longer in the glory in which I was above, and all 2. that my soul desired to understand in my heart I do not understand." And he said to me, "I will explain to you the things you desired in your heart, for you have sought to know the ten plagues which I prepared against the heathen, and I 60 3. prepared them beforehand in the passing of the twelve hours on earth. Hear what 4. I tell you, it will be thus. The first: sorrow from much need. The second: fiery 5. conflagrations for the cities. The third: destruction by pestilence among the cattle. 6. The fourth: famine of the world, of their generation. The fifth: among the rulers, destruction by earthquake and the sword. The sixth: increase of hail and snow. 7. The seventh: wild beasts will be their grave. The eighth: pestilence and hunger 8. will change their destruction. The ninth: execution by the sword and flight in distress. The tenth: thunder, voices, and destroying earthquakes Chapter 31 1. "And then I will sound the trumpet out of the air, and I will send my chosen one, having in him one measure of all my power, and he will summon my people, 2. humiliated by the heathen. And I will burn with fire those who mocked them and ruled over them in this age and I will deliver those who have covered me with 3. mockery over to the scorn of the coming age. Because I have prepared them (to be) food for the fire of Hades, and (to be) ceaseless soaring in the air of the underworld (regions) of the uttermost depths, (to be) the contents of a wormy 4. belly. For the makers will see in them justice, (the makers) who have chosen my desire and manifestly kept my commandments, and they will rejoice with merrymaking over the downfall of the men who remain and who followed after the 5. idols and after their murders. For they shall putrefy in the belly of the crafty 6. worm Azazel, and be burned by the fire of Azazel’s tongue. For I waited so they 7. might come to me, and they did not deign to. And they glorified an alien (god). 8. And they joined one to whom they had not been allotted, and they abandoned the Lord who gave them strength Chapter 32 1. "Therefore, hear Abraham, and see, behold your seventh generation shall 2.(3.) go with you. And they will go out into an alien land. And they will enslave them and oppress 4. them as for one hour of the impious age. But of the nation 5. whom they shall serve I am the judge." And the Lord said this too, "Have you heard, Abraham, what I told you, what your tribe will encounter in the last days?" 6. Abraham, having heard, accepted the words of God in his heart.

من هو الرجل الذى اتى من نسل ابراهيم (و علمنا سابقا انه يقصد اليهود تحديدا) وسبه و ضربه اليهود وبعضهم عبده و لكن الامميون عبدوه ؟
حذر فزر؟!!
من قال من العلماء سابقا ان النص يقصد به كاتبه نبؤة عن اممى سياتى فى القرن السادس الميلادى؟!!
هيثم ابو قمله لا يقرا كلام العلماء المتخصصون

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